Over his many decades in public life, Richard Ravitch has worked in the private sector and the upper echelons of New York state government. The former Lieutenant Governor and Metropolitan Transportation Authority chair is now on the Board of Directors of the Volcker Alliance, the non-profit established a decade ago by former Fed Chair Paul Volcker that aims to bolster the public sector workforce and keep government spending honest. Ravitch was a frequent voice on these airwaves while serving as Lieutenant Governor under Gov. David Paterson through 2010.
Do you miss Albany?
I miss Albany. Yes, I do. I miss having drinks at Jack’s, I miss the capitol. I miss the whole scene.
Now, in your quotes over the years, you have not had the best things to say about being lieutenant governor. So, I understand there's a distinction between missing Albany and missing that job.
Well, you know, when you’re lieutenant governor, with a governor like David Paterson, who is not the most commanding type of person, you're caught in a dilemma because you don't want to make headlines and take any media away from the governor but you have your own reputation to worry about. So, it was a little bit of a tension. But it was a difficult time because of the opposition than Dean Skelos and the Republicans gave to my appointment because of the fact that the Senate was evenly divided, I had a deciding vote. Anyway, all of that is history. I have enormous respect for the legislature, as well as for the current governor.
You're one of the few people to know. There was a lot of discussion about a year ago when Governor Hochul was about to be elevated from lieutenant governor to governor. Does having that job as lieutenant governor prepare you to be governor?
No.
How come?
It has nothing to do with being governor. Additionally, when you have a governor like Andrew Cuomo, who I don't think made any effort to include Kathy Hochul in things. But Kathy Hochul’s a very bright, able woman. She's catching on to being governor.
How do you think she's doing so far?
Well, I think she's facing some very tough issues like congestion pricing of the MTA region. Like how do you preserve your fiscal well-being in a manner to take care of the forthcoming end of federal aid when the state is not going to be receiving what it has recently received. So she's striking a very careful balance between trying to keep enough liquidity, so you're at some capacity deal with what is called a fiscal cliff. She's under enormous pressure to spend money on things that are publicly very useful and very important. And it's tough to set of political decisions as anybody would have to make. Because everything she's spending money on is something that money should be spent on. Our taxes are now the highest per capita taxes of any state in the United States. And the amount of debt that New Yorkers have per capita is greater than any state in the United States. So, it is not so easy. It is not so easy for us to manage the fiscal affairs of New York state.
Last year, Governor Hochul, with the comptroller's urging, put more money in New York state's reserves. Do you think there's enough there for the state to withstand a potential recession?
I don't know. Because I don't know what tax revenues are going be produced. And I don't know what, for example, the state unemployment insurance fund owes billions of dollars to the federal government. If the federal government does get paid, they have the power to impose a tax on all employers in New York state. I don't know whether they're going to do that. I hope not, but we have to repay the money. So, we have a lot of uncertainty that lies ahead fiscally.
What are your concerns about a potential recession?
The MTA number one, the MTA number two, and the MTA number three.
And that's obviously a personal thing for you, a personal interest?
Well, I can't say it’s a personal interest. Obviously, my involvement with the MTA results in my keeping abreast of the situation. I'm giving a major speech at the Citizens Advisory Committee of the MTA, which I'm going to talk about the fiscal situation. And those are big numbers we owe the feds, or the MTA owes the Fed, Federal Reserve, $3 billion. Congestion pricing ain't going to be what they hoped it would be in terms of producing volume for a capital plan. So, I think that's the single biggest problem.
How much of that is brought on by the pandemic and how much or the of these are structural, systemic problems that predated COVID?
Well, obviously, the loss of ridership as a result of COVID and the fact that still so many people are working at home, we have a 23% or 24% vacancy rate in commercial office space in New York, those are important factors. Plus there’s been a reluctance to raise the fare, and there's been a reluctance to do anything dramatic to reduce labor costs.
What would you do about the persistent low ridership?
I think, look, I believe that cities are the greatest socializing institution that mankind ever created. And I'm not smart enough to tell you how long it's going to take. But New York City is not going to go away. It's going to increase in activity and population steadily over these next years. And when it does, and it's going to get back to the kind of usage that it had before. I’m just not smart enough to predict when that will happen. But it will happen.
Do you think Mayor Eric Adams is on the right track when he pushes for a return to New York City's many, many offices and in-person work? Is that part of getting people back on the subway?
Yes, absolutely.
How do you think Mayor Adams is doing so far?
Well, I'm not familiar with very much of anything else. But you know, he's got a tough problem, the crime rate is increasing. There’s just so much a mayor can do, you know? He doesn't have unlimited resources either. He's also facing the same kind of problem that the governor is facing. And that is, how much do you hold in reserve to deal with the situation a couple of years from now when all the federal money is used up.
Why isn't the federal infrastructure spending, the American Rescue Plan Act funding, now we've got the new Inflation Reduction Act that President Biden championed. How come that's not enough of a federal boost in funding for New York State?
I don't really know enough to give you a rational answer to that question. It helps enormously. It's invaluable. It takes time. The gestation period of an infrastructure project is not overnight, you need local approval. You have controversies, locational decisions on priorities. All that money will not be spent overnight, it's going to be spent over a period of years. And it will be incredibly helpful to New York.
Earlier you mentioned New York's very high taxes. The Republicans in this election cycle have made an election issue out of New York state's shrinking population. I know you were talking about the city a moment ago. Why do you think New York's population is consistently dropping relative to other states?
I'm not sure I know enough to give you a totally rational answer. I think the high taxes contribute to the exodus, plus the attraction of the southern climate has something to do with it. But as I said earlier, I'm very bullish about New York City, I think it's always going to attract young people, because it's the greatest socializing institution in the world. When I go to a restaurant, early, there’s a bar there, two months ago it wasn't full. Now it's beginning to get filled with young people who come in and meet each other. That's what’s New York’s great attraction. As the sports open up and the opera opens up, and the concerts open up and movie theaters opens up, you're going see New York recover. I'm just not smart enough to tell you how long it's going to take.
Do you worry about the affordability of New York City?
I worry about the taxes driving out people who are economically productive.
What do you mean by that — people who are earning good salaries and then they want to go to a state without an income tax by comparison?
Or at least a lower one. As I said earlier, New Yorkers have highest taxes per capita of any state in the country.
What about President Biden's move to cancel student debt? Do you think that's a good idea?
You know, I haven't disagreed with the president once. I'm a great admirer of his. I worked for his election last time. But I don't agree with him on that one.
How come?
Well, let me let me put it another way. I think he should have gone to the Congress because it's affecting the fiscal situation of the country. And I think that Congress has a right to participate in that decision.
Do you think that the calculation, though, was that Congress wouldn't agree to it?
I have no idea.
What do you mean by how it's affecting the country's fiscal situation?
It’s large expenditure of money, of revenue the city will not be getting back.
Let me just wrap up with you and ask about November. You mentioned that you worked for President Biden last time. How do you think the November midterms will go? Do you think Democrats will be able to hold on to the house?
Well, to be very candid, I'm very actively involved in helping Nancy Pelosi produce that result and I'm hoping like hell that we do, because the idea of Kevin McCarthy becoming speaker and the MAGA Republicans having the leverage that they appear to have in the Republican Party at this point, it scares the living hell out of me.
If I could return to where we started the conversation, New York has a new lieutenant governor, relatively, in Antonio Delgado, have you spoken to him at all about his role?
He has never called me.
What advice would you give him if he did?
Well, unlike other lieutenant governors, he had no experience in New York state government, I would say he should begin by learning about the budget of the state where he should understand the sensitivity of social, legitimate social needs, versus high tax rates, so that he would be in a position to offer wise advice to the governor and the legislature because those are the central issues.
Do you think Governor Hochul will have any trouble winning a full term?
No.
And you don't think the fact that she's not from downstate will hurt her chances?
Well, it will be better just because of where most of the Democratic votes are if she were but she's very sensitive to New York City. I’m not concerned about that.
What's your favorite order at Jack’s?
You know, I miss it terribly. Scotch and soda.
Come up and get one sometime. It would be great to see you.
Well, invite me for God's sake. I used to be invited to your radio station and newspapers all the time.
I don't know if I have the power, but this is a standing invitation. Anytime you're nearby, come into WAMC and stay as long as you like.
I appreciate that very much. I will not forget.
